Is project alive?

Developer
Feb 16, 2010 at 10:01 AM
Edited Feb 16, 2010 at 10:18 AM

I have downloaded this world editor but it is really at the beginning and actually just at the beginning. As I am in need of a Axiom scene editor, I can help this project, if you need it, to develop faster.

Coordinator
Feb 17, 2010 at 3:00 PM
Edited Feb 18, 2010 at 2:50 AM

Nowherestudios is planning to add a SceneManager to my project since he is a developer here but it hasn't happened yet. I will contact him to see if he can assist you otherwise you can restart it on your own. He has started allot of preliminary stuff on his own at The Saga Chronicles website.

I can add you as a developer. The main WIKI is here on this website for now unless you think another wiki would be best.

I think it would be great if we could finish a Scene Manager for SmartMap alone, it really needs to get done.

Right now what I have is a general idea in  my code, but nothing solid. If you want to come up with your own plan that would be fine. Basically I have an idea of drawing maps in 2D first and then they would appear in 3D from that data but that is just an idea now. It was started with something I call OrthoSnapper which we have some code for on The Saga Chronicles website. But you can start something on your own. The main thing for me is to get workable code in my Source Code bin to try to finish this project, it's very important to me.

Thanks, I will just add you as a developer

Ask as many question as you need.

Developer
Feb 17, 2010 at 3:43 PM

I have tried to examine some ready and mostly commercial scene editors, and thought for some days about the structure of a goo one. I have tested some free or trial ones like FreeWorld3D and L3DT. The end results I ended up with was this:

  • There is actually two stages of a scene editing:
    • creating the base of scene
    • placing the objects on it
  • the base of scene can be:
    • world geometry (I mean a heightmap file and what belongs to it) , or
    • a static mesh
  • reality is that for generating the base of scene there are much free programs like terrain generators for terrain bases or blender for mesh bases that I think at least for the beginning focusing on them is not the matter.

So what I ended up whit is a system that lets user generate his base with any other programs and load it up in our scene editor and continue editing, adding objects, meshes and things.

At end our scene editor saves an xml file that describes how the created scene should be loaded in Axiom. (I mean any world geometry, static meshes and entities or any other objects present in the scene are described in that file. At the end we would also provide a special class which prepares an Axiom engine using this given descriptor file.

Actually I have gone some of this way but because of some problems and also being alone on the project slowed down, however I think we can have a talk and end up with a plan then I would transfer what ever I have done up to now to this project's scene editor.

Another question came to me was that why a special scenemanager would be needed? Axiom and Ogre come with a bundle of scenemanagers each of which meeting some needs that another one does not. Also it is possible that a developer needs to write a new scenemanager for his new needs, so I think a scene editor should be able to work with any scenemanager that user chooses, not restricting him to a special scenemanager.

And something that I can't see any link in your post, probably you have forgotten to put them.

Coordinator
Feb 17, 2010 at 11:51 PM

Yes, I was looking more at an editor and not really another manager. I guess the manager could be defined by the third party using the editor and mapping utility which is what SmartMap is. It would be a class done for the XML file. The XML file could be defined by the user for their scene manager. I was focusing on most of the complexity for the QuickGraph and editor part.

So I think the main goal was to get an editor done with good auto path-finding.

If you want to combine code, that would be fine. Also let me know about how you think my mapping utility could be best used. It is mainly for path-finding and building complex towns and rooms etc from pre-made meshes. It will have to support varied size meshes when I prefect it after the editor has been created.

Does that sound ok?

Also were you asking about a link to The Saga Chronicles? It is at the front of the SmartMap page.

Coordinator
Feb 18, 2010 at 2:46 AM
Edited Feb 18, 2010 at 2:46 AM

Here is a UML diagram I had made up in the past:

 

Developer
Feb 18, 2010 at 6:34 AM

What I was looking for was the link to main WIKI as you said in your first post but it was not linked.

From what I understood, the SmartMap is some thing like a terrain generator and allows the game designer to generate a pre-design of his map (like a big city) and then start editing it in the editor. If I am wrong about some thing please tell me.

I would try to get what I had done running and send it to you to see it.

Coordinator
Feb 18, 2010 at 2:14 PM
Edited Feb 18, 2010 at 2:16 PM

You can create or edit WIKIs by going to the Home or Documentation tabs up top.

There are allot of automated aids with SmartMap but you can still edit it with an editor. I would love to have object loaders first to load objects into the scene.

SmartMap creates a city or forests and then also the added benefit of logical mazes to aid in AI pathfinding and AI walking routines similar to NeverWinter Nights or a Tournament style game.

Once that land has been created it also is placed on a QuickGraph graph that AI can follow. So the AI understands the building that was created rather then just walls.

An added benefit I am adding later is logical goals where items could be placed and needed by the AI. Plus the depth of creation is allot stronger then those other games.

About making structures on 3D terrain rather then flat terrain, that should be done further in the future when most stuff has been perfected. It's a little harder.

Coordinator
Feb 18, 2010 at 2:18 PM
Edited Feb 18, 2010 at 2:25 PM

There are allot of automated aids with SmartMap but you can still edit it with an editor. I would love to have object loaders first to load objects into the scene. Right now I have to manually type that in.

Developer
Feb 24, 2010 at 5:52 PM
Edited Feb 24, 2010 at 6:27 PM

Sorry for reply a little late.

Yes i had working on a scene editor and i stopped to continue on other issues. (implemented a Mesh Viewer, started tohe implement a rule sysem for the rpg game etc...)

We can return back to scene editor if you wish and i would gladly cooperate with you.

And i want to create a grid based world and i have some specific needs to create grid based levels so i had decided to implement a gridbased map edittor. While WorldEditor is gridbased and 2d, maybe we will not need any specific SceneManagers. We will see that in time...

I stopped to commit to the smartmap project and currently advancing these titles under SAGA project. I was planning to synchronize this project to latest version after the world editor becomes stable and useful.

The latest version of the World Editor is at here :

http://saga.codeplex.com

Get the latest version from there.

If you want, i would add you as a developer to saga project and we could share the details anytime you want.

Also i could send you a few UMLs about what i have in my mind. But it is very organized under Source/Engine/World folder

Developer
Feb 24, 2010 at 8:48 PM

Hi there,

I have also done some job of a scene designer. However it is in beginning and it needs too much improvements. I have posted some previews here: http://axiomengine.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=846&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=e69880f70d20cff931609f78458276f9

There also is some description included, please inform me if it is something like what you need to do or if they can be merged together.

Developer
Feb 24, 2010 at 11:27 PM

I saw you have done a wizard form but end of the wizard i took an exception about resource folders so i didnt see what have you done inside. If you fix that plz notify me...

I noted some ideas i can share about your project:

  • You always expecting to get a terrain but some level designs can need no terrains (if they are flat, ex: a room)...
  • i guess you have used a gridbased theory. and it supports all scene managers but most of the time, games use their own (optimized) scene managers. So making a mostly generic world editor would have simillar restrictions that could happen on a specific SceneManager world editor. So it is more useful to implement an own scene-manager that can optimize with your own theory that used on your world editor  (Forex: do you keep lights, passable objects, blocking objects and interactive objects on different layers?)

These are my ideas...

If you can show me really what did you approached, i would gladly combine your project in to saga and help you...

Developer
Feb 25, 2010 at 8:04 AM
Edited Feb 25, 2010 at 8:04 AM

Thanks for your review. Let me know if you have tested the first version I put there or the last one.

and about what you have said about terrain, yes you are right, it is possible that some one has no terrain or has a bsp but for now I am just testing this process and later would add an option of terrain if user selects TerrainSceneManager or bsp if related sceneManager is selected and so on. But the problem is that I don't have exact knowledge of each of these SceneManages and should test each of them separately or need persons who have experiences with those SceneManagers.

The whole program uses an Axiom Engine and tries to load what this engine can do and for example loads its SceneManagers, RenderSystems and so on. I know that most of the time developers use their own SceneManager but I decided to write this scene editor so that even will work with undefined SceneManager. For example if the user adds an entity to the scene, this entity will be added in destination game Axiom's Engine with a call like this:

Descriptor.LoadSceneNodes(AxiomEngine);

Where Descriptor is the class coming with GameDesigner and is able to load saved xml file. I'm also providing a way that if developer needs can add this entity to a group and retrieve an handle to it (and all other objects inside that group) by calling some function like this:

Descriptor.GetMovableObjects("GroupName");

And do what ever he wants to do with them like moving, animating and so on. But the GameDesigner has just defined the initiating position of entity relating to the whole world.

If you are interested in code take a look here: http://agd.codeplex.com/

also take a look at some screenshots from my working version: http://agd.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=Show%20Page

Developer
Feb 28, 2010 at 12:49 PM

Long time no see!

I just wanted to ask if you both saw the project or not? I'm trying to work on it faster to enable at least the basic usage, however if you can use it and need any part of it to be ready sooner, just tell me and I will try to implement it as soon as possible.

Coordinator
Feb 28, 2010 at 12:54 PM

It looks great so far. I will take a look. Did you want me to somehow combine this with my project. Maybe a way to load the meshes in and organize them . I will study it.

 

Developer
Feb 28, 2010 at 1:00 PM

I am trying to write this project as a multi purpose SceneEditor, so that it can be used in your project, my own project or other ones like SAGA and I'm trying to keep it as flexible as possible.

Using this project as your interface and just concentrate on creating your expansions to it, it is exactly what I want this project to become. Therefore I would try to do everything that keeps me on this goal.